Arms PVE - A Comprehensive Guide (Repost from Offical WoW Fourms)

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Arms PVE - A Comprehensive Guide (Repost from Offical WoW Fourms)

Post by Gotshammit on Tue Jan 11, 2011 7:39 am

Orginally Posted by Secondwind
Re-Posted for Resurrection by Gotshammit

This guide will cover everything needed for Arms PVE, from spec, to stat distribution, to rotation.

This guide will be updated as more information becomes available, and as things change.

Table of Contents:

1. [SPC] Talent Specializations and Glyphs

2. [STA] Stat Priorities and Gearing

3. [GEP] Gemming Strategies, Enchants, and Professions

4. [ROT] Abilities and Rotation

5. [FAQ] Frequently Asked Questions

This is pretty straight forward. Every section will be started with the 3 letter code indicated in the table of contents. So if you want to just see what your rotation is, hit ctrl+f, and search for [ROT], which will bring you straight to section 5, Rotation and Strategy. Now into the meat of the guide.

[SPC] Talent Specializations and Glyphs

So you want to try Arms, but have no idea where to start? Well this is the place for you.Your basic spec will look like this:

However there are some choices in there that you can make, and I'll go through the talents one by one so you can see where those choices are, and pick what suits your style the best. If you don't care for the analysis, feel free to skip to the next section, the spec linked will work fine, but understanding what your talents do and what choices you have available is important, I feel.

First I'll cover Glyphs because they're quick and easy. Prime Glyphs you want Mortal Strike, Overpower, and Slam. This boosts the damage of most of your primary attacks, the only alternative is the Bladestorm Glyph, and until it comes out as a dps gain on single target, reducing its cooldown doesn't help a lot for dps.

Major and Minor Glyphs are all pretty meh, nothing really stands out as a must have, so swap between them as you see fit based on the situation and your play style.

Tier 1

War Academy-A pretty straight forward damage boost, not a lot to say about this. It increases the efficiency of two of your least efficient attacks, and makes Victory Rush hit harder as a minor benefit.

Blitz-This is your first optional talent. Here you can choose to spec into Blitz, for the extra rage at the start of the fight, and a little extra stun CC on AoE packs. Alternatively, you can spec into Field Dressing if you want to make life easier on your healers. For progression Field Dressing will likely be your better option, but as you get further into a tier, healer mana will be less strained and the benefit of starting the fight with 10 extra rage, as minimal as it is, will show itself.

Tier 2

Tactical Mastery-This is another optional talent, and here you have some more choices. Tactical Mastery allows you to maintain a whopping 75 rage while swapping stances, as opposed to the normal 25 rage. This means it may be possible for us to stance swap to zerker stance when not using Overpower, to gain a damage increase while not losing much, if any, rage. Right now this is all theoretical and hasn't been proven, so I consider it optional until we see people in cata doing it in practice for a DPS gain.

You do have two more options here, in addition to whatever you skipped out of tier one. Your other options are:

Second Wind-My namesake talent, sadly not frequently useful in PVE. If a raid encounter crops up with a lot of stunning and rooting of DPS, it may get taken, otherwise this is pretty much relegated to PVP.

Drums of War-This talent is actually pretty useful in PVE situationally. If there is an interrupt fight, this lets you interrupt without having to worry about having enough rage to land the pummel. It also lets you use your shouts rage free, which is a pretty minor benefit but it's there. Ultimately I think this is a decent option, but inferior to tactical mastery, or even one of the tier 1 talents you could get instead.

Deep Wounds-Back to the Mandatory talents. There's no way around it, this is your bread and butter. It gives you extra crit scaling, adds a second DoT to your arsenal that applies itself passively, and accounts for a fair bit of your damage. This talent is also required to access Impale, which you want almost as badly as you want this. Pick it up, no exceptions.

Tier 3

Taste For Blood-Another absolute must. This talent makes Overpower a rotational ability. Between Overpower's low rage cost, pretty high base damage, and the inflated crit strike chance granted by this talent, it is an absolute must.

Sweeping Strikes-Not quite so mandatory, as it is only a cleave damage boost. It is situationally useful and better than most other options though, so take it.

Impale-+20% crit strike damage to 3 of your best attacks, and makes Crit even more valuable for you. You want this.

Improved Hamstring-This is an optional talent that you could put a point into rather than Sweeping Strikes, and one of the other talents later on. It is a on demand root which may be useful in some fights. If a raid encounter requires it, respec into this. Most of the time you'll be better off with Throw Down and Sweeping Strikes.

Tier 4

Improved Slam-This talent is pretty much mandatory for PVE Arms. It turns Slam from the %!!%tiest move into your arsenal into a viable filler attack, making it more efficient than Heroic Strike even when taking into account the lost damage and rage from pausing your white swing.

Deadly Calm-Another mandatory talent, and this one is pure awesome. It's your single target DPS cooldown that gives you a clear casting state applying to ALL abilities, for 10 seconds. That's right 10 seconds you can go all out, spamming HS on cooldown, using slam, whatever else, while gaining a full rage bar. Will discuss this more under rotations.

Blood Frenzy-This is yet another mandatory talent. The proc for 20 additional rage is decent, giving about .75 rage per second, increasing with haste, making this a good talent even if your raid doesn't need the debuffs. However, it comes with two debuffs tied into it, both of which are relatively rare. +Bleed Damage and +physical damage, gives you some more raid utility.

Tier 5

Lambs to the Slaughter-Another mandatory talent. This one makes your Mortal Strike more important, as every Mortal Strike you use increases the damage of your next strike by 30%. Don't go anywhere without it.

Juggernaut-The holy grail of mobility, giving you charge in combat, it's worth picking up just for that. The bonus crit strike chance on MS right after a charge is just icing on the cake.

Sudden Death-6% chance on all melee strikes to reset your CS cooldown. This brings your time between CSes from 20 seconds to roughly every 15 seconds. Given the awesome armor ignoring power of CS, this is well worth it. The execute bonus is pretty small, but given how much rage execute can potentially take, this actually helps out a lot with rage efficiency in the execute phase.

Tier 6

Wrecking Crew-Another talent to prop up Mortal Strike as the focus of our tree. 10% damage after critting with MS is nice, there is no reason not to take this.

Throwdown-Your last really optional talent, a 5 second stun is useful in a lot of fights, particularly those with adds that need to be burned, and can help a bit in trash pulls. You can alternatively go back and fill in one of the earlier talents you skipped, such as Imp Hamstring.

Tier 7

Bladestorm - According to the tooltip you should be hitting 150% weapon damage per second while using this, which makes it a moderate DPS increase for 6 seconds, and a HUGE gain in rage efficiency, similar to deadly calm. As of now, the damage appears to be bugged and still hitting only 100% weapon damage per swing, and is a dps loss to use on single target. It's still useful to take for AoE purposes, however you can choose to skip this for one of the other talents if you really wanted to, until it is fixed. I would not recommend doing so, as there's nothing else that's really a solid DPS increase even on trash.


Fury is the subspec of choice for Arms. Beyond Incite, there just isn't much in Prot to help with dps, whereas the first two tiers of fury are loaded with DPS enhancing goodies. There is an argument to be made for Blood and Thunder for AoE, but unless you're making an aoe centric spec, you probably don't want to put points into it, just because they're better spent elsewhere.

Fury Tier 1

Battle Trance-This is a fun proc. Every time you use MS, you have a 15% chance to make your next ability free. Given that outside of MS, your other abilities are relatively cheap (slam is 15 rage, OP is 5, rend is 10, CS is the highest one at 20), you almost always want to spend this on a Heroic Strike. So this talent translates into basically 2 free heroic strikes per minute if you do it right, which is pretty solid.

Cruelty-Another DPS increasing talent and thus mandatory. This one increases your crit rate on Mortal Strike by 10%. Given Arms' currently really low crit rates, this helps a lot. Right now we're looking at 15-20% crit raid buffed in tier11, so your MS will have a roughly 50% increased crit chance relative to your other abilities thanks to this talent.

Blood Craze-Was recently nerfed into uselessness. Even pre-nerf for Arms was only useful if you're on progression and healers are having a ton of mana trouble. The DPS gains from the other talents are just too hard to pass up.

Fury Tier 2

Executioner-This is actually a really solid talent on boss fights, giving you up to a 25% increase in attack speed once you get to execute phase. This means generating more rage, faster, which makes your executes hit harder (Execute costs enough rage that it's impossible for arms to actually maximize its usage at the full 30 rage, even with sudden death so any rage generation bonus at this point is a plus). It means more white hits, more SoO procs, more deep wounds procs, and harder hitting executes during that last 20%. Haste is generally pretty bad, but in this case we're getting a lot of it for relatively little cost which makes it good.

Booming Voice-The main alternative to Executioner, this one gives you a more steady rage gen throughout the fight, letting you cover more rage shortage gaps and overall smoothing out the rotation.

Rude Interruption-This is another alternative, but much more situational and thus not as good. 5% damage with basically 100% uptime on any fight with an interrupt mechanic required, but on any fight without, its useless.

Piercing Howl-A situational control talent. May be useful occasionally in PVE, but not really worth giving up the damage bonuses for.

Prot Tier 1

Incite-A pretty awesome talent. With 3 points in it gives you +15% crit chance on Heroic Strike (awesome given our low crit levels, just like Cruelty), and if Heroic Strike crits, you get a proc to make your next heroic strike also a crit, guaranteed. 3 points in this is basically a must have, even if it mostly only comes up during Deadly Calm and Battle Trance procs.

Toughness-Basically useless for a PVE DPS. If you're taking physical damage you're likely doing something wrong.

Blood and Thunder-Like I mentioned above, this is a great talent for AoE, but can't compete with Incite or any of the options from tier 2 fury, so has to be left out in the cold unless you're making a dual spec just for AoE or something along those lines.

[STA] Stat Priorities and Gearing

Stats are pretty easy. Here's the rundown:

Strength: Any warrior's primary stat, you want a lot of it. Luckily it comes on pretty much all your gear. But you will not want agility itemized capes, trinkets, weapons, or jewelery, as opposed to pre 4.0 when we would use those agility based items regularly.

All of your main armor pieces will always be plate. No exceptions. The 5% bonus to strength from plate specialization is too much to pass up, even if by some miracle the crit from agility did become more valuable than the AP from strength on a few pieces.

Hit/Expertise: After strength, this is our next priority. A missed hit deals no damage, and with LttS, Wrecking Crew, and CS, a missed hit can cause a lot more loss of damage than just that hit thanks to the synergy between attacks. You want to make sure both of these stats are capped asap.

Your hit cap is 8%, which at 85 is 961 hit rating.

Expertise cap at 85 is 26 expertise, which requires 792 expertise rating. If you have a weapon specialization racial, this can be reduced. If you're not sure what the rating requirement is for your racial, take 26 minus the racial bonus, and multiply by 30.03, round up. So for example a human with a sword, gaining +3 expertise has 26-3 = 23 * 30.03 = 690.69 = 691 expertise rating to cap.

Remember, unlike with Fury, any rating above either of these caps is 100% wasted. So take advantage of reforging, gemming, and whatever else to get as close to the exact cap as possible, to make sure you are getting the most out of your gear.

Crit: After capping those such that we never miss again, the next priority is Crit. Everything we can do can crit, which means 1% crit is exactly 1% damage baseline. Then add on top of that deep wounds (an extra 48% weapon damage every crit), and Impale (20% bonus crit damage on 3 commonly used abilities), and you have a very strong stat. You want crit rating on gear whenever possible.

Mastery: This is our next stat priority. Mastery is close in value to crit. Arms mastery is Strikes of Opportunity. Every 1 point in mastery is a 2% chance increased chance to strike the opponent for 100% weapon damage. This bonus strike can crit, and can proc Sudden Death.

Haste: Haste is a pretty terrible stat for Arms. Our white damage is a pretty low percent of our damage, it does not scale rend, and since we have all our really cool rage control tools such as Deadly Calm, our base rage generation is pretty low, so it takes a lot more haste than is realistically feasible to get a enough leeway in rage generation to allow a lot of extra heroic strikes. On top of this slam's cast time does not scale with haste, so the more haste you have, the worse the rage efficiency of slam gets.

You will take this stat as your absolute last priority if no other gear without this stat is available. Then any haste on that gear will be reforged to either Crit or Mastery (or hit/expertise if not capped), to minimize the damage loss from having this.

It is worth noting our tier 11 gear set has 4 out of 5 pieces with haste. Because of this you will only want to get the 2 piece bonus, picking up the legs, plus one other piece, then looking for offset pieces without haste to fill in the other slots.

To summarize, your gearing is going to be Strength > Hit to 8% > Expertise to 26 > Crit > Mastery >>>>>>>>>>> Haste

[GEP] Gemming, Enchanting, and Professions


Well now you know what stats we value, which makes this part a bit easier. You want to prioritize your highest value stats when gemming and enchanting. So given that, gemming is relatively simple:

As long as the socket bonus is a strength bonus, you want your Red Gems to be Strength, your Blue Gems to be Strength/Hit, and your Yellow gems to be Strength/Crit.

"But Secondwind!" you cry out "I saw the requirements for the Chaotic meta and I will never be able to activate it gemming like that!"

And you would be right! However the loss in strength from trying to activate that POS will be worse than the loss of just not using that meta. So instead, you will use the Fleet Shadowspirit Diamond. Its only requirement to activate is two yellow gems, which you should have easily. Given that Mastery is one of our better stats, that part of the gem bonus is good, and the run speed bonus frees up our options some for the boot enchant.


Going down the list and picking out our highest priority stats for each enchant category:

Boot- Mastery. Increases Mastery rating by 50. Best option by far. If chaotic meta becomes an option again, you will use that then instead use the Lavawalker enchant in this slot.

Bracer- Greater Critical Strike. Grants 65 crit strike rating. This is the highest rating enchant (others are 50 rating), which makes it far away our best option.

Chest- Peerless Stats. Grants +20 to all stats. Once again a pretty easy decision, as the runner up is literally a lesser version of the same enchant.

Cloak-Greater Critical Strike. Grants 65 crit strike rating. The closest option here is a 50 crit strike rating, so an obvious choice.

Gloves-Mighty Strength. +50 strength, this enchant is pure awesome and there's no reason not to have it.

Weapon-Landslide. Hands down no contest our best weapon enchant in PVE. Haste is a terrible stat for us so we don't want hurricane, and a proc for 1000 bonus attack power is nice.

Helm- Arcanum of the Wildhammer/Dragonmaw. Grants 60 strength and 35 mastery rating. Requires you to get revered with the Wildhammer faction in Twilight Highlands for Alliance, and from the Dragonmaw Clan faction in Twilight Highlands for Horde.

Shoulders- Greater Inscription of Jagged Stone. Grants 50 strength and 25 crit rating. Requires you to become exalted with the Therazane faction in Deepholme.


I feel it is important to make a note about reforging. Reforging makes gear with hit on it not a bad thing until you have 40% more hit on gear than you actually need, because you can reforge away 40% of a stat and turn it into another. This allows us to take advantage of those blue hit gems without having to constantly swap out gear.

In general, you're going to use reforging in three situations.

1) You have too little hit/expertise. In this case you will be reforging your other stats into it to become capped.

2) You have too much hit/expertise. In this case you will be reforging the hit/expertise away into Crit or Mastery, minimizing wasted stats, and allowing you better control over your gear. In general grabbing a Hit/Crit item will be better than grabbing a Haste/Crit item, even if you're hit capped already, because you can reforge the hit from the new item and an older item away to get back to cap, and trading it for a useful stat rather than haste.

3) You have haste on your gear. Anytime this unfortunate event happens, you will reforge the haste into Crit, or if crit is on the piece, to mastery.


All professions have secondary benefits, but not all professions are created equal. Currently in cata, the old standbys of Jewelcrafting and Blacksmithing are strongest.

Leatherworking has emerged as a strong profession, actually better that Blacksmithing or JC at the moment due to current enchants. Its benefit is a 130 str wrist enchant, so you gain 50 strength more than the other profession benefits, at the cost of 65 crit, definitely worth it.

Blacksmithing gives you two bonus prismatic sockets, which means 80 bonus strength.

Jewelcrafting gives you access to gems that give +67 rather than 40 of their stat, but you can use only 3 in your gear. This translates into 81 of the stat you gem gained, usually 81 bonus strength.

Enchanting is a strong choice now too, with there now being a strength ring enchant, giving 40 strength per ring, it is equivalent with BS and JC.

Other professions may be used, Engineering is usually a strong contender. I haven’t seen all of the cata prof changes, so others may have been brought up to the same level. This section will be updated as needed.

[ROT] Abilities and Rotation

So you've followed me this far, we now have an optimal spec, solid gearing, and have optimized our gems enchants and professions to be the best Arms warrior possible. Now all that's left is to figure out what buttons to press and when.

At the basic level, your rotation is going to be:

Rend > CS > MS > OP > Slam > HS

Now, let's take a closer look at each of these abilities and when you will use them.

Rend: This is your bleed, and Arms' only actively applied DoT. Its damage on its own is pretty low, but having rend up allows you to use your most efficient attack, Overpower, so you want to make sure it doesn't fall off. Rend has a 15s duration, and ticks every 3 seconds. Ideally you want to use it after the 4th tick, and before the 5th tick when it falls off. This means every 12-15 seconds, or every 8 to 10 gcds. To be safe you will probably want to use it every 9th gcd (ie at 13.5s elapsed, 1.5s before it falls off).

Colossus Smash: This is the Warrior level 81 ability, and hits for Weapon based damage, and allows all of your attacks for the next 6 seconds to ignore armor. This makes it priority number one if Rend is already up (you want to make sure rend is up so you can use OP during the CS effect). Colossus Smash has a default 20 second cooldown, but every attack you make has a 6% chance to refresh the cooldown, which lets you use it more often.

Important to note, since your CS does last for 6 seconds, if SD refreshes your cooldown within 6 seconds, you want to want until the old debuff expires before using CS again. This may result in a wasted proc like 1% of the time, but most of the time this delay will result in a higher uptime of the CS debuff, so keep an eye on that debuff to avoid clipping.

Mortal Strike: Mortal Strike is the backbone of the Arms rotation. It has a 4.5s cooldown, high damage, procs Lambs to the Slaughter and Wrecking Crew.

Overpower: Taste for Blood is an interesting talent, in that it makes Overpower into a Proc that is not a proc. Once TFB procs, you have until the following proc to use it without losing any DPS. This makes Overpower a lower priority even though it is our most efficient attack by a large margin. Don't be afraid to delay this attack for anything else, but try to use it within 6 seconds of it lighting up. The ICD on TFB is 5 seconds, but it procs off rend ticks, so it will still proc every 6 seconds, the lower ICD just helps to combat lag.

Slam: This is your filler ability. As long as you have Improved Slam, this will be 20% more efficient than a Heroic Strike, even with Incite. The only exception to this is if you used Heroic Strike during DC or a Battle Trance proc, and got a crit. If the incite buff is procced, Heroic Strike will take precedence as long as you have the rage to use it.

Heroic Strike: Heroic Strike is a rage dump that is off the global cooldown. This means any time you are high on rage you may use this to bleed off rage even while maintaining your normal rotation. This is also why it becomes the number one priority for battle trance procs and why you get to use it more during Deadly Calm.

As mentioned under slam, you will use this as a last priority. Mainly, you will use this ability while under the effects of Deadly Calm, or after Battle Trance procs. Alternatively you will use this if you are sitting around 70 rage, to make sure you don't cap. Realistically you shouldn't be sitting at that high of a rage level too often.

Execute Phase

Execute is our finisher attack. When the target is below 20% we're able to use this ability, and it hits like a truck. It is by far our hardest hitting and most efficient attack. It is affected by CS, LttS, and Wrecking Crew, and Battle Trance, however, so unlike fury you cannot switch to just straight up spamming execute sub 20% for a dps gain.

However during this phase you can pretty much ignore Rend, Overpower, and Slam. So your priority ends up looking like:

Colossus Smash > MS > Execute > HS.

Battle Trance procs go straight into Execute rather than HS, so you should only be using HS if you somehow come close to capping rage during the execute phase, or if you pop deadly calm during this time.

Also worth noting here is since Rend and Overpower are your only skills that we use that require battle stance, and both are being dropped, during execute phase you can easily switch to Berserker Stance for a extra 5% damage on everything.


Arms warriors have two Cooldowns, Bladestorm and Deadly Calm. Neither one is a huge spike in burst damage, but both give a rather large increase in rage efficiency.

Bladestorm currently does not appear to be hitting as hard as it should, hitting for 100% weapon damage instead of the 150% indicated on the tooltip. Should this be fixed, it will be used rotationally even on single target, as it would be a DPS increase at that level. Bladestorm is a 25 rage cost ability that lasts for 6 seconds, or 4 GCDs, while hitting 7 times in those 6 seconds.

While Bladestorming you cannot use any other abilities, but you essentially get 7 150% damage attacks for 25 rage, which is exceedingly efficient. Also keep in mind, you continue generating rage while Bladestorming, so you will usually want to use it when low on rage, so as to avoid waste.

Going to reiterate though, right now it's hitting for apparently 66% of what it is intended to, so you will usually only use it when there's more than one target around at the moment, despite its efficiency.

Deadly Calm on the other hand has a slightly longer cooldown (2minutes compared to 90 seconds), and lasts a bit longer (10 seconds),and rather than causing damage on its own, it is a free to use ability that makes all of your other abilities free for the duration.

This means to take full advantage of Deadly Calm, when you use it you want to have as little rage as possible. In 10 seconds you will get a full rage bar, or close to it, so any rage you have before pressing DC will likely be wasted. This means you want to hit Deadly Calm at the start of a pull, and you certainly do not want to use it during heroism. After your first Deadly Calm, keep an eye on its cooldown.

Just before it gets off cooldown, you will want to start using Heroic Strike even if you're not really high on rage, to bring your rage levels as low as possible before hitting Deadly Calm. This doesn't make HS a higher priority, but it does lower the threshold where you will start using it. If you have only 30 rage, use your Slam or whatever else instead. But if you have 30 rage to spare, hit HS to keep your rage low going into DC for maximum benefit.

AoE Rotation

Arms AoE is pretty straightforward. You want to use Sweeping Strikes on cooldown, especially if you can line it up with Bladestorm, and Cleave takes a much higher priority when it's available. While AOEing, glyph of Blade Storm, Glyph of Cleave, and Glyph of Sweeping Strikes are all desirable.

Thunderclap damage is pretty low end, so for the most part there's no sense in using it. The exception is if you have a tank who can't apply the attack speed debuff in AoE, or there is a metric ton of enemies (think Onyxia Welps). With how low Thunderclap currently hits it's likely a DPS loss for anything shy of 6-8 mobs. If you took Blood and Thunder it becomes a bit more valuable, but you're giving up a lot of single target damage for that Blood and Thunder so...

[FAQ]Frequently Asked Questions

Q: zomg how does i spec?

A: Read the damn guide.

Q: I heard Arms has lower DPS than Fury, why would I spec Arms?

A: Honestly, Fury is higher, but the delta between the two is smaller than they have been throughout the last two tiers of Wrath. You can raid as Arms and have viable DPS, if not the best. You may want to swap to Arms to bring that extra buff to your raids' 10 man that they couldn't squeeze in otherwise, or just because you prefer the play style of Arms. The rotation is certainly more in depth than Fury, and a lot of people prefer that, even if it comes at the cost of some DPS

Q: I've heard that stance dancing can gain you some DPS, and you mentioned it briefly under the spec, how come that wasn't mentioned in depth anywhere in the guide?

A: At this time, the gain from stance dancing is theoretical. It is very likely this will result in increased damage if managed properly, it is also difficult to manage, and we have not seen any players taking advantage of stance dancing to maximize DPS. Until this is proven in practice, I won't endorse it, but I will ask anyone who decides to do so post the results of their experiments here.

For reference to anyone who doesn't understand this, Berserker Stance has a 10% damage bonus and has access to all abilities Arms uses except Rend and OP. If you could time your swapping right to use OP/Rend in battle, and everything else in Zerker, it's theoretically 5% bonus damage for free on everything else.

Q: You make no mention of Inner Rage at all, that's our 83 ability, when should we use it?

A: At this time, it's not usable during Deadly Calm, so realistically there is no time when you would want it for the full duration it currently lasts.

If you want to go more complicated, you can make a cancel aura macro, use it on OP/Rend/Bladestorm/Battle Trance Procs, when you have enough rage to activate it, then hit the cancel aura macro once you've used it. That requires a lot more micromanagement, but using Inner Rage on your most efficient attacks is a theoretical DPS increase, it just isn't worth using on everything with the attainable levels of rage generation. Using HS more often is just more effective than paying the extra rage for Slam, CS, or MS.

Just like the stance dancing above, this is a lot of extra work for relatively little, potentially only theoretical gain. If you want to test it and post results, please feel free to, if it is proven a dps increase I will move this into the main guide, but for now there's too big a chance of it just being a lot of hassle for nothing for me to feel comfortable fully endorsing it.

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